[16][22], Platt attempted to start the Grogan/Dove car. The other Officer reluctantly did so. Black Talon can comfortably replace Izanagi in Night Falls. Your discussions, feedback and comments are welcome here as long as they are relevant and insightful. This difference is obvious after firing into ballistic gelatin. Glock 30 Gold dot 200 gr +P / Critical Duty 220 gr +P / HST 230 gr +P SIG's standout defensive handgun load is the Elite Performance blend with V-Crown bullet, available in 9mm, .40 S&W and .45 ACP, as well as others. It does excellent damage and comes with the Crow's Wings perk that launches a Heavy Attack projectile at enemies. RecPak is a meal replacement for the outdoors that saves you weight, space and time in the most challenging environments, just add water. Winchester repackaged and renamed the round throughout the years. The collision knocked off Grogans glasses, and there is speculation his vision was so bad that he was unable to see clearly enough to be effective. In a shootout with two bank robbersWilliam Matix and Michael Platteight FBI agents, mainly armed with .357 Magnum revolvers loaded with .38 Special went up against Matix and Platt armed with .223 Remington rifles and shotguns. Box 378 Red Hook, New York 12571 United States. Firearms Trivia - Winchester Black Talon Ammunition As a result, its seen many uses in PVP and certain PVE situations. I personally used to use federal hydroshock mainly because thats what was available to me and what I was used to until watching some videos on YouTube about the g2 research rip rounds and the underwood extreme defender rounds.the rip rounds do kinda look impressive but at the same time dont look to me like they would have much of a impact.now the underwood on the other hand Ive seen go through a class 2 vest and still penetrate 16 of ballistic gel leaving a wound cavity thats just massive and that was only a 9mm round.ordered both brands recently and plan on testing them out for myself especially since theyre only 115grain rounds in a 40cal which is what my cc cal is.curious to see if I can get the same results penetrating diff barriers such as drywall,plywood,glass,sheet metal and a vest with a 40cal opposed to the 9mm in video.have a strong feeling that my new carry round will be the underwood extreme defender though.pray i never have to use one in defense but if i do i dont think anything or anyone would still be standing after getting hit with a extreme defender round. Below is our list of the top most controversial brands or types of handgun rounds. I lived in countries where citizens could not own firearms and therefore I was pretty much out of the loop when it came to American gun control and gun laws. We have to portray an image of conscientious awareness to go along with our situational awareness. *Lighting a path to truth* Former Navy JAG Worldwide U.S. Military Defense. So, the point is, a shooter in a high stress defensive situation may not hit well, so any hit needs to count. If you have a mushroomed slug driven into your chest, you wont feel any better if that slug is all blunt around the edges; the wound channel will still be a shredded mess with blunt jacket petals protruding from the edges of the slug. [10], Colin Ferguson used Black Talon ammunition for his Ruger P89 919mm pistol during a 1993 shooting incident. [16], Doves 9 mm pistol was rendered inoperative after being hit by one of Platts bullets. At the time, Winchesters Black Talon was one of, if not the most effective self-defense round you could buy. Both of their bodies were drug-free at the time of their deaths.[26]. [1] Put it head to head with the Federal HST 124 grain in ballistic gel and against a Kevlar bulletproof panel!. Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s. I shot a male approx. Black Talon has a black bullet with six serrations at the nose seated on a shiny nickel-plated cartridge. Previously only offered to law enforcement, Speer Gold Dot G2 offers the ultimate performance for self-defense thanks to an exclusive nose design. [14] It is estimated that Platt was shot a fifth time shortly afterwards, this time by Risner. As boatloads of testing has displayed, the V-Crown is incredibly accurate and . at about 25 feet and while one round hit dead center chest it failed to end the gun fight. Mireles drew his .357 Magnum revolver, moved parallel to the street and then directly toward Platt and Matix. Winchester Black Talon 44 Magnum Small Display Block Think a little bit harder/smarter. I choose to carry Critical Duty in my G23 & 27. You must become a subscriber or login to view or post comments on this article. Everytime a Good Guy with a Gun does the right thing, the media never mentions it. I even had one work OK from a 2.5 bbl. The Black Talons petals look more like well talons, essentially making the wound channel even wider. Introduced officially in 1991, this hollow point round is especially famous for its unique-looking projectile. Test results are generally given in terms of expanded diameter, penetration depth, and weight retention. Destiny 2 Black Talon Exotic Sword - How to Obtain But the Kahr works best with the 200-grain Gold Dot; an ideal load for that gun. 10 Great Defense Loads - American Handgunner In the days after the round was released, reviewers and interested gun owners scrambled to get their hands on some of this expensive ammo, only to find that not only did it cost about $40 for a box of 20 rounds, it was also hard to find. handgun Ammo black talon | Best handgun Ammunition black talon [3] Though widely misreported to be Teflon, molybdenum disulfide, or wax, the ammo has an unusual black appearance compared to other copper-jacketed or lead bullets. Required fields are marked *, Stay up to date with all things RE Factor Tactical with updates sent directly to your inbox, Why The FBI Requested Better Duty Ammunition, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $31.77/box, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $31.53/box, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $34.99/box, Available at Kentucky Gun Company for $30.88/box, REMINGTON AMMO 9mm Golden Saber Bonded BJHP Bonded 124Gr, HORNADY 9mm +P Luger 124 gr FlexLock Critical Duty, FEDERAL AMMO 9mm + P 124Gr HST JHP Premium, HORNADY CRITICAL DUTY 9MM +P 135 GRAIN FLEXLOCK DUTY, https://www.amazon.com/shop/refactortactical, Battle of the Barrels: Faxon vs Ballistic Advantage, Spotting Scope vs Binoculars: Choosing The Right Glass, Faxon Glock 48 Barrels: Are They Worth the Investment? They actually became friends in the Army. If that is right, I would worry about muzzle blast ( it is designed for a longish barrel) and maybe over-penetration? I'm the knife nut that everybody is ashamed to know. Seven months later, Gian Luigi Ferri loaded his gun with Black Talon and open fired in a law office in San Francisco, California, killing nine people. Talon Defense | Laatuasunnot-The black talon round ddi not fail what failed was you used a handgun and the average human can take many hand gun rounds before stopping. They never worry about what holster to buy as they have no intention of ever carrying that thing. It is as if they are just going through the motions, putting a check in a box on some fanciful list somewhere: Go to the store and get bread, eggs, paint the garage, buy a gun, wash the car . Thus If you have among the last boxes manufactured. Even the old snub nosed 38 with plus P ammo would shoot through a persons torso at close range. . Regardless it was a tragic, horrific day in south Florida in particular that day as well as law enforcement in general. Great read, all the correct info in the correct order and on point and subject. Not only does Jihawg guarantee that all of their ammunition meets or exceeds S.A.A.M.I. This round is an excellent choice for self-defense or home defense. Officer Heckman does not remember Platt leaving the Grogan/Dove car. William Matix: Smith & Wesson Model 3000 12-gauge shotgun, one round #6 shot fired. Its a Black Talon. I had no idea what he meant, but he sure looked and sounded serious, so I nodded my head, gave my thanks and accepted the gift. Seven months later, Gian Luigi Ferri loaded his gun with Black Talon ammunition and walked into a law office in San Francisco, California, killing nine people. Anyone who might need to use their firearm in an urban or otherwise built-up environmentwould be remiss to not consider using hollow point rounds. Glock 21 Hornady XTP 230 gr +P / Ranger 230 +P. More recently, the US Supreme Court refused to hear an appeal that would strike down San Franciscos hollow point ban. A great Sunday morning read! Of the ten, only one, Special Agent Manauzzi, did not fire any shots (his firearm was thrown from car in the initial collision), while only one, Special Agent Risner, was able to emerge from the battle without a wound. The 230gr JHP manufactured by HOP Munitions results in a slightly slower FPS of 876 FPS but offers a greater downrange energy of 392 ft/lbs. For a round very similar to the old Black Talon, check out the Winchester Ranger series or the PDX1though both are difficult to find. I was pretty bad at first, too. 1-1 1/2 of penetration the round is usually expanded to about .45+ with jagged petals that cut for about 12. Gilbert Orrantia: S&W (model unknown, likely a Model 13, as it was an issued weapon at the time) .357 Magnum revolver, 12 rounds .38 Special +P fired. Wish I could write this well! This creates a wider wound channel. Anything that we do that appears to be overboard just gives the antis one more bullet to use against US! Platt rounded the rear of their car and killed Grogan with a shot to the chest, shot Hanlon in the groin area, and then killed Dove with two shots to the head. 0. Black Talon rounds were known for the unique construction of the bullet and its sharp petal shape after expansion following impact with tissue or other wet media. Additionally, it must penetrate clothing including heavy jackets, denim, and leather. Expansion in gelatin blocks starts within 1/2-1 of entry and leaves a approx. We were operating a Advanced Combat Survival course (TAMU). No one weapon will ever be enough in my mind. [8] Platt then pulled back from the window, giving Matix opportunity to fire. The autopsy found Platts right lung had collapsed and his chest cavity contained 1.3 liters of blood, suggesting damage to the main blood vessels of the right lung. At no point was the round ever prohibited by United States law. [7][8][9] Some medical personnel were concerned that the sharp barb-like tips could potentially cause tears in the surgical gloves and hands of the medical workers, exposing them to greater risk of infection,[2] however there are no documented reports of this actually happening. Plus backups which we had to qualify with and had to be department approved. Luckily, 10mm handguns were new and not many shooters had them. Suspects[edit] Black Talon 9mm Caliber Ammunition for sale. - Collectors Firearms +p+ was definitly the right direction. Golden Sabers are on the list too. I packed up my gear and left. He was incredibly informative. to work with. This ammunition line was renamed Fail Safe. Right after the "Banning" of Winchester Black Talons-the developer of that bullet changed companies to "Remington". As he did so, he was shot a second and third time, in the right thigh and left foot. Some experts even suggest that Teflon-coated bullets were significantly worse when it came to penetrating Kevlar but nonetheless, several states have restrictions in place for the ownership of coated rounds. I have personally used Black Talon ammo in a 40 Cal Glock and can tell you first hand that it lacks important penetration on impact. [8] At an unknown time, Matix had regained consciousness and he joined Platt in the car, entering via the passenger door. That D.A. In December, Colin Ferguson killed six people and injured 19 more on a train in New York. Winchester Black Talon is arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow-point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes contact with the human body. [8] Just prior to ramming the Monte Carlo, Manauzzi had pulled out his service revolver and placed it on the seat in anticipation of a shootout,[8] but the force of the collision flung open his door and sent his weapon flying. The CorBon DPX is too hot (in my opinion) for self defense in a small home where if you shoot thru wall A, you hit your son, and if you shoot thru wall B, well theres you daughter. This is simply a brilliant piece of work. Barrett is the world leader in long-range, large-caliber, precision rifle design and manufacturing. Platt then apparently positioned the Mini-14 against his shoulder using his uninjured left hand. Grogan and Dove were kneeling alongside the drivers side of their car. Black Talon bullets are not inherently illegal in the United States. Wow thats really intelligent for FBI agents to have 38 specials inside 357 revolvers, huh? Wal-Marts in my area stock PDX-1 all the time. They sell for $50-$75 around. Past works have been authored to cover only the major talking points in your article, and were forced to do so only as distinctly separate stories due to the sheer volume of information involved; however, you managed to blend the entire history of each topic into one very well written article that is somehow brief, yet able to maintain excellent continuity without missing any of the most important facts. It was captained by Revinal Orzik. Time Magazine described the Black Talon rounds as a bullet "designed to unsheathe its claws once inside the victims body and tear it to pieces." The publicity around the shooting led to some jurisdictions restricting the use of Black Talon bullets, but they were not banned outright. Yeah, we cannot divulge that information publically. Winchester Black Talons The handgun ammo that was just "too good" to [8][25], Toxicology tests showed that the abilities of Platt and Matix to fight through multiple traumatic gunshot wounds and continue to battle and attempt to escape were not achieved through any chemical means. Platt then fired his rifle at Mireles who was running across the street to join the fight. I have a box of sxt, but chose the bonded version for performance through auto glass. BLACK TALON * AMMUNITION 45ACP 230gr. SXT - Guns International Ideally both! They are continually coming out with them in new calibers. [17] As Platt entered Grogan and Doves car, Mireles, able to use only one arm, fired the first of five rounds from his pump-action shotgun, wounding Platt in both feet. Despite being riddled with bullet holes from the FBI, Platt was able to continue firing back. From a Glock 27, I noted that EVERY SINGLE ROUND became clogged by the soft pine and completely failed to expand. Every time I see reference to that shootout it takes me back to that day. Other than the collectibility of the Black Talon, the author is definitely right about other ammunition being just as good and some even being close to identical just by a different name (I like the SXT round reference.same exact thing..lol). The Black Talon bullet is referenced in The Mountain Goats album Bleed Out, in the track "First Blood".[21]. However, after medical examiners performed autopsies on the bank robbers bodies, it was discovered that one bullet stopped just less than an inch from the heart. In 1993 Winchester removed the ammunition from public sale,[12] but at no time was Black Talon ammunition uniformly prohibited by US law. Most of the design for the Black Talon was rolled over into the Ranger SXT ammunition, which operates on much the same principle. You may have heard that it was produced with a Teflon coating but in all actuality, it was a special round coating focused on preserving barrel life. They are just arguably the most aggressive and most lethal hollow point round ever designed due to the sharp petals that expand when it makes. Even now, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive round and search for its modern day equivalent. Can you guess what it is? Do you still have these boxes? 's blog. On expansion, the bullets unsheathed sharp talon claws that looked like a buzz saw. This is as close to a perfect Comprehensive Readers Digest version, in the 45 words or less format of the complete facts and points of interes as one could ask for! 4-6 diameter wound cavity about 10 long. Some were enthralled by the black bullets and wanted to examine them closely. standards for velocity, penetration, and accuracy, they also coat each projectile with a special ballistic paint infused with pork to make it Haraamor unclean to a radical Jihadist, the company stated in a press release in 2013. John Hanlon: Smith & Wesson Model 36 .38 Special revolver, 2-inch barrel, five rounds .38 Special +P fired. S&W 637 Remington 158 gr LHP +P / Gold dot 125 +P In the shootout, the eight FBI agents were mainly armed with Smith & Wesson Military and Police .357 Magnum revolvers shooting .38 Special +P ammunition. The result is extremely uniform expansion, better separation of the petals, and more consistent penetration across barrier types through full-size handguns. SXT Description: FOR SALE: WINCHESTER BLACK TALON .45 acp BRAND NEW ~ OLD STOCK SIX (6) boxes of 20 rounds each of Winchester Black Talon, 230grain DP load (deep penetrator) collectible and great defensive round. Its specially designed hollow point wont plug while passing through a variety of barriers, and the bullet jacket and core hold together to provide nearly 100 percent weight retention through even the toughest materials. What sets the Black Talon apart is its six sharp pointy edges. Therefore, they are certainly NOT the same exact thing. "[N]o injuries have been reported to medical professionals removing the bullets" in "Police use new brand of bullets Surgeon says removal may endanger doctors" by Dan R. Barber. Winchester 9mm 147gr Black Talon in Clear Ballistics gel. - AR-15 Hollow Point Ammo. MUCH safer for firing in a small home. It is my new go-to round for home defense. When he was hand cuffed and moved a second weapon had been in his good hand. The most obvious difference from the SXT is that the bonded design, meant to maintain structural integrity through difficult intermediate barriers like auto-glass, largely prevents the sharp petals from peeling away from the lead core and fully protruding into the wound track. The companys excellent marketing campaign should be creditedfor putting the round out front and center, garnering more than 1.5 million views on YouTube over just a span of a few days. Be sure to follow us onFacebook,Instagram, andLinkedInfor exclusive content and deals. [1] Black Talon ammunition was produced in the following calibers: 9mm Luger, 10mm Auto, .40 S&W, .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, .300 Winchester Magnum, .308 Winchester, .338 Winchester Magnum, and .30-06 Springfield. A jury of your peers, and not a knowledgeable jury with respect to ammunition, will hear those words He loaded those Cop Killer Bullets into his gun and just waited for the chance to use them. Your claim of Self-Defense now becomes premeditated murder! For the prestige of having and carrying the bullets that rip apart the insides after passing through a bulletproof vest instead you have become the evil gun owner. Stay Tuned to the RE Factor Tactical Blog and be part of this all VETERAN-run website. Mostly because they are 25 years old and other companies are reproducing them under different name for as low as $18. They tend to kinda lose interest in doing anything else than try to breath after that. Despite this, the ammo maker did have avidsupporters until it recently closed its doors. { I personally own 10 boxes of Winchester Black Talon in .45 ACP and 9mm.6 boxes of .38 Special and .357 Magnum.and 10 boxes of .44 Magnum. Winchester Black Talon Bullets: Modern-Day Equivalents Pilgrim ammunition located in Sarasota Florida makes terrific self defense rounds. If you want either round, SGAmmo has plenty at decent prices. We reserve the right to edit as appropriate, delete profane, harassing, abusive and spam comments or posts, and block repeat offenders. Hornady Critical Duty, with FlexLock technology, delivers "barrier blind" performance when shot through common urban barriers. The Ranger SXT ammunition sold later by Winchester is very similar to the Black Talon though without the black Lubalox coating on the bullet. Resembling the larger, more heavily armed Terminus-class destroyer, the Gage-class transport traded the destroyer's numerous turbolaser banks for cargo space and troop barracks. The round is a traditional hollow point bullet, but with a then-innovative reverse taper (the bullet jacket is thicker at the tip than at the base) and a Lubaloxnot Tefloncoating. [9], Manauzzi was wounded when Platt fired several rounds from his Ruger Mini-14 rifle that penetrated the door of Manauzzis car. .357 Black Talon - YouTube ActionHub // I am also well versed in the Black Talon and its complete run in history to the point that I own some for posterity sake. This ammo has not been manufactured for many years. I shoot 10mm and .357Sig. The events that day as others pointed out were a series of just flat out bad luck with glasses getting knocked off, weapons getting tossed out of vehicles bullets just stopping shot of being fatal upon impact plus they (the agents) were going up against. Thanks Suzanne. It cuts through the organs of a human being.[18]. I generally test new bullets to see how they expand through barriers one is likely to encounter. However, not many would recommend spending the money unless you are a collector or a sucker for nostalgia. What type of bullet if that? Ronald Risner: Smith & Wesson Model 459 9mm pistol, 14 rounds fired, S&W Model 60 .38 Special revolver, one round .38 Special +P fired. Also, the photo of the mushroomed bullet with 2 layers of petals is totally radical and cool and wicked!! Support Veteran Journalism . The two bank robbers (William Matix and Michael Platt) were armed with a Ruger Mini 14 chambered in .223, 12 gauge shotguns, and .357 revolvers. My absolute favorite based on my tests, their tests, and the awesome pic that shows the bullet cut in half, revealingt he load of balls. Black Talon bullets are a brand of hollow-point bullets that were designed and marketed by Winchester in the 1990s. Matix was apparently knocked unconscious by the hits and fired no more rounds. Among collectors and self defense experts, Black Talon ammo is well-known as one of the most effective self defense rounds in the world. Black Talon ammo was developed by Winchester and became the target of liberal media scrutiny back in the 1990s. San Francisco put together a new law banning Black Talon ammunition. Not exactly sure what to do with one round none of my guns could eat at the time, the Black Talon was soon forgotten and lost in the black hole I call a car. The round is a traditional hollow point bullet, but with a then-innovative "reverse taper" (the bullet jacket is thicker at the tip than at the base) and a Lubalox not Teflon coating. Agents[edit] The core is made of high-antimony lead making it extremely tough, delivering controlled expansion for unparalleled terminal performance. This page is not available in other languages. John Hall, FBI Firearms Training Unit Director at the time called the tragedy an ammo failure. The aftermath encouraged the FBI to seek new guns, more effective ammunition and set precedence for the FBIs protocol on ammunition evaluation and testing. Minor injuries from shotgun pellets. On the more expensive side, the Cor-Bon solid copper DPX in any caliber is a also good self-defense round. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. 20 SUPREME CENTERFIRE PISTOL-REVOLVER CARTRIDGES in each box.All boxes are in excellent shape nearly factory fresh . And the Golden Sabers that I fired did NOT have any pointed jacket petals; they were of a blunt shape. A fictionalized version of the Black Talon bullet called the "Black Death" is utilized by Hank Schrader to kill Marco Salamanca in the Breaking Bad episode "One Minute". Nowadays, people still claim Black Talon was the best defensive handgun round. Even today as I re-stock my armory of weapons I do so based on the events of that day. If you dont think hollow points are controversial, just talk to someone who doesnt know what they are. With that, I wanted to take the time to compliment you on one of the best written articles to have ever covered this topic. Unlike the Black Talon, for whichnegative media attention caused the discontinuation of the line, G2s R.I.P. In the end, Winchester decided to discontinue the pistol caliber line in 1993, and the entire line completely in 2000. I am in no way an expert, but I think the black talon 180 gr load in 357 is hunting ammunition. Buy a 357 black talon ammo online. Ranger "Talon" ammo for a while, was also marked SXT on the box, but the bullets themselves were not the same bullet . When the Black Talon expanded, it resembled talons, essentially creating a massive wound channel. Black Talons | USA Carry - Concealed Carry Forum which includes rounds from both semi-autos & wheel guns. Two high-profile mass shootings in 1993 led to the Black Talons demise. With robust designs and vintage classic style, discover the heritage of military timepieces today! Thank you for your service! "[19][20] Both the round and the firearm have subsequently been adopted by all branches of the United States Armed Forces, except for the Coast Guard. Black Talon is a brand of hollow-point pistol and rifle ammunition introduced in 1991 by Winchester, primarily intended for law enforcement and personal defense use. No, Im not talking about a 3 letter agency either. The Ranger SXT is the same bullet without the Lubalox coating. Two high-profile mass shootings in 1993 led to the demise of Winchester Black Talon ammunition. A hollow-point that hits with over 500fp creates enough hydrostatic compression of the vascular system (regardless of the placement) to cause capillaries in the brain to burst. Another popular characteristic of Black Talon ammo is a coating known as Lubalox that is applied . Glock 26 Hornady Critical Defense / Gold dot 115 gr / Barnes TAC 115 +P What is the value of Black Talon ammo? | Glock Talk I was on duty that morning in Miami and heard it go down on my police radio Since it was being dispatch County wide as it was happening, After that day and event and listening to Sgt Dave Rivers who was in charged of MDPD crime scene unit give a detailed account of the events that took place and all the things that happened surrounding it I vowed I would let myself be outgunned. Black Talon is a type of ammunition that was introduced by Winchester Ammunition in 1991 primarily for law enforcement and self-defense. .357 Mag 180gr Winchester Black Talons | Defensive Carry Similar to the Black Talon, G2 courted controversyby designing a hollow point round that sent out eight sharp trocars upon expansion, allegedly inflicting much more damage than a conventional hollow point. A 3.5 Kahr failed to expand a round from the same box, and the bullet behaved like ball ammo. There are still places, like New Jersey, where the ownership of hollow points isrestricted. This Lubalox coating was to protect the barrel rifling, and did not give the bullet armor-piercing capabilities. Gordon McNeill: Smith & Wesson Model 19 .357 Magnum revolver, six rounds .38 Special +P fired. made waves when it was released. I was honored to meet him 4 more times. Get the latest Offers, Outdoor News, Stories, and Reviews delivered to your inbox. Richard Manauzzi: lost control of weapon in the initial vehicle collision, no shots fired. Winchester stopped producing the Black Talon round in 2000, and that kind of fed into its mythology and mystique. Both of these are non-bonded, so they both have some jacket separation at the nose.
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