Until I get some specifics on what the reprograms do, I'm holding off. If it becomes corrupted or damaged, it can cause all sorts of problems including engine shudder. If your Ford car or truck is experiencing engine shudder, it could be the result of a variety of different issues. This repair is a one-time thing and is only offered until Janurary 1st, 2023. I'm late to the party but my 3.5L EcoBoost is doing this and it's getting worse. At the time I scheduled service, I clarified that whether or not my vehicle had experienced a rattle at startup, that a reprogramming would be done. BUT..I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER update. Looking to buy my first F150, But the 21N08 Update When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. From what the rep told me 21B10 needed to be done before 21N08 even though I have a FSA for 21N08. It may not display this or other websites correctly. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. So far, these recalls have been effective at solving the problem and improving customer satisfaction. Oh ok perhaps a good point. and if so an updated calibration will be applied. Privacy Statement - It is difficult for me to get a price right now on the PCM reprogramming since it is still under warranty for a few more weeks, so most front-desk service advisors dont have pricing. One of the most common issues that you may face is to program 21n08 PCM to reprogram due to engine shudder. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Generally, Fords are extremely reliable vehicles and are cheap to repair. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Issues with IWE potentially caused by PCM Reprogram. The previous 21B10 customer satisfaction update was designed to send more oil to the cam phasers. @Lawnpro have you changed your spark plugs yet? X-Bull winch reviews | Where are they made? In some cases, the engine may enter limp mode. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 3], Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Hmmm? Likes: 1. Manage Preferences - Hi guys, I am pretty new F150 owner (2019 new to me bought about a month ago) and noticed on my ford pass app that I have two notices in my recalls section: CSP 21N03 CAM PHASERS and 21N08 PCM REPROGRAM DUE TO ENGINE SHUDDER. Cam Phaser replacements costs at least $1200, depending on the shop. If Ford was serious about this they would offer customers compensation as Volkswagen did. Proper maintenance is essential to keep a cars engine and transmission running smoothly. Recall 21B10 is a campaign by the United States Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC) to recall certain models of childrens bicycles. The initial cam phasers rattle would generally first appear on a cold start due to a lack of oil. The transmission is responsible for transmitting power from the engine to the wheels. Check Gauges Light Comes On, And Car Shuts Off, Roach Getting Into Car Meme Explained: Get On This Trend. I'm assuming this is like a TSB. The 21B10 was designed to solve a cam phasers rattle by increasing oil flow to them, but a percentage of affected vehicles demonstrated the side effect of an engine shudder. Reboot. The goal of a manufacturer customer satisfaction program is to increase customer loyalty and repeat business. It may not display this or other websites correctly. If your engine does stall unexpectedly, try to pull over to a safe location before attempting to restart it. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. I ended up having it in the shop 4 times between 3 different dealerships and none of them could fix the issue. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. You are using an out of date browser. Manage Preferences - I scheduled the initial step of the Cam Phaser Reprogramming about three weeks ago. There are several reasons why the PCM may need to be reprogrammed. Diagram. The reprogram will update the engine control module (ECM) with new calibration files that are optimized for use with low deposit engines. Cookie Policy - You are using an out of date browser. The 5.4L Ford engine is a V8 that was used in many different vehicles from . I had 21B03 and knock on wood I haven't had any negative side effects like I have read about Hey all, I am looking to buy my first full size truck and very interested in a used F-150 3.5L EcoBoost, all because of being good in gas consumption and the amazing towing capability. Mine had only recently started rattling on startup. There is a new Recall specifically for this. Did the re program- to no avail- the engine light back on. This program covers certain repairs that may be needed as a result of a software issue. Disclaimer: Links on this page pointing However, the engine shudder is quite noticeable. So, we see that transmission issues may be the cause behind 21n08 engine shudder. Or, if your vehicle has been in a collision, the impact could have damaged the PCM. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. PDF TO - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration This removes the shudder. One potential cause of engine shudder is an issue with the PCM, or powertrain control module. Be aware that your cam phaser rattle may return. By updating the software that controls the PCM, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission. In the meantime, its important to be extra careful when driving one of these recalled vehicles. This makes it easy for them to compare symptoms, find solutions and unlock the best-hidden features in their trucks. Privacy Statement - The F150 is the best-selling pickup truck in Americaand has been for 45 years. The recall does not mean there is anything wrong with the vehicle, its a software update to prevent a phaser rattle noise from developing. From what I have gathered my dealership performed 21B10 on October 1st (NOT 21N08 which is supposed to be a factory roll back). Ford F-150 Raptor General Discussions [GEN 2], Positive Experience: Third Party Warranty Repair, Ford Raptor Engine Discussion and Performance Mods, Hmmm? Terms of Service - I an having the same issues with my 2013 f150 ecoboost 116k started about 6 months ago. The Program 21N08 PCM Reprogram is designed to address an engine shudder condition on certain vehicles. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Had my cam phasers done back in July. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. You are using an out of date browser. Sep 13, 2021. What did you do to your truck today? Join Date: May 2021. In this article, we will discuss the PCM reprogramming process, the root cause of the program, and the solutions to the issue. Reliability is important to me. Cam phaser rattle back and check engine light on. #5. 21N08 Ford Technical Service Bulletin - tsbsearch.com PDF TO: SUBJECT: Customer Satisfaction Program 21N03 - Supplement #1 develop an undesirable noise. So far, the results are positive. Trading start-up clicking for what sounds like a power neuter job and a "shudder" is nuts. Fords are equipped with an adaptive shift feature where the computer learns to adjust the shifting for a smoother ride based on the drivers habits. Theyll be able to determine if the problem is due to a faulty PCM and can reprogram it accordingly. 14. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder . Oftentimes, this engine shudder may be mistaken for a transmission shudder. JavaScript is disabled. In some cases, the PCM may need to be reprogrammed in order to fix the problem. Buy or Avoid? 2nd Gen with #21B10 and #21N08 and - Ford Raptor Forum At the worst, if the issue re-appears (low likelihood), you might end up out of pocket for a fairly affordable repair. If Im not in the garage creating content, youll find me outside, running, canoeing, and traveling. Thank you for choosing Ford! A manufacturer customer satisfaction program is a voluntary initiative undertaken by a company to improve customer satisfaction. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. The 21N08 is a pcm reprogram due to engine shudder that reverts the programming back to the original programming prior to the 21B10 reflash. While engine shudder can be alarming, its important to keep in mind that not all instances are created equal. Ford Motor Company will provide a no-cost, one-time repair under program 21N08 to return the vehicle's PCM to the prior calibration. What is this all about? Summary. It may not display this or other websites correctly. Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. 21n08 - PCM reprogram due to engine shudder. Advertising - (2). Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -. So I should probably find out what this transmission repair is. If your car is experiencing engine shudder, it may be time for a PCM reprogram. The PCM (Powertrain Control Module) is a computer located in a cars engine that controls the cars engine and transmission. In December, I went in for the 21b10 - PCM Program for Cam Phaser Rattle. My goal is to empower more people to be self-sufficient. If youre experiencing engine shudder, the first thing you should do is take your vehicle to a Ford dealership or authorized service center for diagnosis. It involves surveying customers to identify areas where they are dissatisfied and then taking action to improve those areas. Any shop with an IDS scan tool will be able to check your car for transmission codes. If you know how to fix it cheaply, then you might be able to get yourself a deal. . This generally only affects a low percentage of vehicles that received the 21B10 flash. Im meticulous about my oil changes, every 4000-5000 miles using Amsoil 100% synthetic. This recall affects a variety of models from the 2012-2013 model years, including the Escape, Fusion, Taurus, Flex, Explorer, and F-150. Otherwise, further diagnostics will be required to determine cause of shudders. How will this extend your powertrain warranty 2 years? Ford is aware of this problem and has issued a recall to fix it. Took it to dealer said it was cam phaser issue again. The vehicle is a CPO but I feel like the selling dealership didn't do a great job looking it over, so I took to a local dealer in AZ (I purchased it in UT). Surprised to not see a whole slew of threads or posts on 21N08. PDF TO - National Highway Traffic Safety Administration How Much Does A Powertrain Control Module Reflash Cost? Posts: 20. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans. to Amazon, eBay and other sites may include affiliate code. Less rattle on startup, and no adverse effects so far. The affected vehicle exhibits a very noticeable shudder, and can be pretty concerning. I'm a long-time Ford and automotive enthusiast, and I've been writing about cars for over 10 years. The affected bikes were sold at Walmart stores nationwide from February 2018 through July 2018. If youre a Ford owner, you may be eligible for the Customer Satisfaction Program 21B10. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. Symptoms of a bad cam phaser include a loud engine rattle or tick when the engine is running, a check engine light, and stalling at a red light. 2015 - 2020 F150 - 21N08? Originally, I understood the engine shudder to be a miscommunication between the camshaft position sensor and the PCM. I've seen some mention of a shifter cable clip that breaks or something. Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, https://www.f150forum.com/f118/field6275/index148/. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network. I now have 85k miles. t seems like every other Raptor and Ford 10R80 has these issues. Send us a private message with your F-150's VIN. Summary of Related Cam Phaser Rattle Recalls: How Much Does Cam Phaser Replacement Out Of Warranty Cost? . Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued - Ford Expedition Forum If youre experiencing engine shudder in your Ford vehicle, please bring it to your nearest dealership or service center so we can take a look and get it fixed up for you as soon as possible. Hmm very interesting perhaps I should take it in and see if they will replace mine. Manage Preferences - Only detectable at a crawl speed. Plenty of better engineered options out there. This is a free service and should only take about an hour or so to complete. Two versions of PCM calibrations - the regular one (21B10) and one for if you experience engine shudders with the regular one (21B10S2). If you have one of these bikes, you should stop using it immediately and return it to Walmart for a full refund. When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. I had 21B10 done last week on my '19. Calling the dealer when I get back and having it looked at thanks for this info. But what exactly is engine shudder? Hello Raptor world. I had the first PCM recall done too, but have an engine shudder issue. Your mechanic can hook up a diagnostic tool to your car to determine if this is the issue. I asked them to let me know if the Cam Phaser Rattle recall had ever been done to the vehicle and when I picked it up, they told me they did "RECALL 210B10" and the work order stated "210B10D Reprogram PCM to the latest level". Reaction score. - Anyone have any information regarding the new recall notice I just received in the Ford App. When there are problems with the transmission, it can cause the engine to shudder. 5. call your dealer and schedule an appointment. and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low . Engine - Fordmasterx Detroit. This can help to eliminate the engine proceed shudder. If the PCM software is incorrect or outdated, it can cause the engine to shudder or shake. The following errors occurred with your submission, Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans, Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum, Send a private message to VelocityBlue2020, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. it's a software update to prevent a phaser . Just noticed a shudder after the truck was serviced last weekend. Please register or login to enable Dark Mode. Im new to my 20, is this a TSB? The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Your car should also be outside of its warranty in order to keep from voiding a warranty on your car. If the Carfax shows that the vehicle that you are looking at buying has already received the 21B10, then you may need to take it in for the 21NO8 reflash to revert those settings. The shudder may be felt during light acceleration, at speeds between 30-40 mph, and can last for a couple of seconds. If not, you will want to get the latest computer updates before the warranty expires on it. However, the increased oil in the cam phasers may affect engine performance, especially when cruising at a steady speed. Ford F150 Forum - Community of Ford Truck Fans . 5.7 Hemi Lifter Failure Symptoms Causes & Fixes, Lomax Tonneau Cover problems & troubleshooting, Truxedo Sentry CT Problems & Troubleshooting, UnderCover Armor Flex Problems & Troubleshooting, Retrax Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting, Peragon Bed Cover Problems & Troubleshooting. However, if the vibrations are severe enough to cause your car to shake or rattle, then its definitely time to take it to a mechanic for further diagnosis. So, it is certainly very uncomfortable and potentially dangerous for the drivers and passengers. This condition is typically caused by the buildup of deposits on the intake valves and combustion chambers. The PCM reprogramming process is often recommended as a solution to the engine shudder 21N08 issue. Once 21B10 is done, it unlocks two customer satisfaction programs 21N03 and 21N08. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder. This is outlined in the letter Ford sent to us 2018-2020 Expy owners . 21N08 update, So I do not know if should pull the trigger or not. Certain 2017-2020 Model Year F-150, 2018-2020 Expedition, and 2018-2020 Navigator Vehicles Equipped with a 3.5L GTDI Engine PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder ;In a very low percentage . Even with these known issues, the Ford F150 has an annual maintenance cost estimate of about $858 per year. There are several F150s, Expeditions, and Navigators that needed a PCM reprogram due to an Engine shudder. Reprogrammed PCM - Now it Stalls | Ford Raptor Forum By logging into your account, you agree to our, yes they are only done if the concern is present. It was also discussed that the reprogramming could result in a shudder in the drive train which would require further work. at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. I imagine that you may get the cold start rattle and earlier cam phaser failure, but at least the engine wont shudder. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Are you saying the vehicles primarily affected by the engine shudder were poorly maintain or ran low on oil? It is an essential part of a cars powertrain system and is responsible for managing the fuel delivery, ignition timing, and transmission shifts to ensure optimal performance and efficiency of the car. If you search 21N08 you'll see that's the fix for it. Mine does this while at low rpms. The first software update was performed on my 2018 three weeks ago and did not solve the issue. Because they are such a popular model, Ford F150 owners have their own forums and subreddits devoted to their truck model. At Ford Motor Company, we take vehicle safety and quality very seriously. If you are an astute shopper, you might have found these issues before buying a vehicle. Automated page speed optimizations for fast site performance, Benefits of reprogramming the PCM to address the engine shudder 21N08 issue, Improving performance and fuel efficiency. The PCM reprogramming process involves updating the software that controls the PCM. I also don't know if the issue with the Cap Phasers will cause other engine problems down the road. BUT.I have been reading a lot about the Cam Phasers issue and all of them getting the. Question about cam phasers and pcm reprogram due to engine - Reddit If your vehicle is equipped with the 3.6L engine and has less than 80,000 miles, it may be eligible for a free of charge power control module (PCM) reprogramming. Had my cam phasers done back in July. This can be done by a Ford dealership or an authorized service center. So i guess every 30k miles i am looking at $1200 bill..crazy this is not covered under warranty!!! For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. 2019 F150 Shudder/Vibration | Page 2 | F150 Ecoboost Forum How about introducing yourself in the new members section and posting a pic of your truck? But unlike my previous trucks, this ones not going to be an overlander or rock crawler that needs to not leave me stranded in the middle of nowhere. Im a little more willing to whip out the AAA card for the extra fun factor and luxury of a Raptor. This resolves the cam phaser noise on startup issue (you know, the annoying Ford cold start cam phaser rattle). Was it stalling or did the auto shutoff just turn it off for a few seconds? Yesterday drove the truck from NY to Maine and all through the traffic out of NY truck had a strong vibration right around 1000 rpm and would settle at a full stop. Any suggestions on what to do would be helpful? Both will appear on the carfax of every affected VIN, which includes 2017 to early 2020 models. In some cases, this can lead to a crash. Recall letters were mailed to each affected vehicle owner On September 27, 2021. This can be caused by a variety of factors, including a dirty or faulty mass air flow sensor. . I'm assuming this is like a TSB. I appreciate the help. I have three trucks in mind that I am looking at 2017, 2018 and a 2019. Program 21N08 Pcm Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder First off, be aware that CarFax may show these recalls whether or not they have been done. There is a recall, Mine has the same issue with the shudder after that recall. While there may be other potential remedies for the engine shudder 21N08 issue, the PCM reprogramming process is often the most effective and efficient solution. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Honestly? This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. 21N08? - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. That population essentially consists of vehicles that were poorly maintained or ran low on oil. General discussion on the 13th generation Ford F150 truck. Field Service Action: 21N08 "PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder", Yep -- what ASV said. 1997 F150 stalls when defrost turned on full, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information. If your Raptor is experiencing engine shudder, you may need to have the PCM (powertrain control module) reprogrammed. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. Thats why you have to take the help of a mechanic or dealership. LOL, Ford Raptor Exterior Modifications Forum [GEN 1]. Ford TSB 21N08 2019 F-150 | CarComplaints.com I noticed mine is doing this as well. Im going to try to use it as a point of negotiation. This newer field service action 21N08 software update is designed to solve the motor shuddering problem caused by the 21B10 reflash. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? Contact Us - As I read it (not saying I'm right), If you DON'T do the updates, I think Ford will not cover it in the future. If your Ford vehicle is experiencing an engine shudder, its important to get it checked out by a professional as soon as possible. Dealer called and said bill would be $1200. By updating the software, the PCM can better control the engine and transmission, which can help to eliminate the engine shudder 21N08 issue. If you previously received the 21B10 PCM update at a Ford dealer and are now experiencing the engine shudder, you should take advantage of the PCM reprogram. Cookie Policy - Pcv Valve Ford 4.2 Liter V6 Engine Diagram . I have a 2018, just got the same notice. Your email address will not be published. I was looking at another truck earlier and noticed on the Carfax it showed a "Manufacturer Customer Satisfaction Program Issued". The problem stems from the fact that these vehicles are equipped with an engine control module (ECM) that can fail due to a software error. If your cam phasers are not noisy, don't fix stuff that isn't broken, obviously the earlier PCM upgrade was done that extends your warranty to 70000 miles and prorates beyond that, you don't have the shudder so not needed the 108 flash. Reaction score. The 21N03 was the one I was thinking of. Hey! We are talking about millions of trucks and SUVs! I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. I read somewhere that adding an octane booster for a couple of tanks will help. Ford 5.4 Engine Life Expectancy . '22 camera issue made worse by dealer and others issues not resolved. The Ford/GM 10R80 is "defective"? I brought my 2019 F-150 3.5 EB in for the recall. If you click them and make a purchase, we may earn a small commission. Ford TSB 21N08 Make: Ford Number: 21N08 Date: 10/29/2021 Title: PCM Reprogram Due to Engine Shudder Summary: In a very low percentage of the affected vehicles, an engine shudder may develop after receiving the PCM update provided in program 21B10. Sounds pretty promising Sounds pretty promising Thats why were committed to quickly addressing any issues that may arise with our vehicles. Ill try to update this report in 2023 as this customer satisfaction bulletin expires. These effected models include: This vehicle repair also covers the Ford Raptor and Limited F150 variants. JavaScript is disabled. The Ford F150 sold 663,508 trucks in 2021, beating out Ram and GM. The open recalls are unrelated to the transmission. Go back and tell the dealer is has a shudder. This campaign is for vehicles that had 21B10 S2 performed and had an engine shudder afterward. Because the 21B10 has expired and the 21N03 is about to expire at the time of this writing, we need to explore what your costs would be if you needed to replace the cam phasers out of your own wallet. Required fields are marked *. Getting the parts changed out by a poorly trained monkey when not needed is risky in my opinion. Lincoln TSB 21N08 2019 Navigator | CarComplaints.com Sorry my Ford pass just updated and now I have the 21N08 and 21N03. Because of this issue, your engine may shake or shudder. More importantly, this recall is supposed to help extend the life of the cam phasers as demonstrated by their extended warranty coverage for vehicles that received this PCM reprogram prior to February 2022. Now they say it needs another round of cam phasers. I got it too. (CSP 21N03 and 21N08), Aftermarket Products, Reviews & Installation, Suggestions, Comments & Questions about the Forum. The recall is for bikes with front wheels that can detach unexpectedly, posing a fall hazard to riders.
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