An admonition is not a dictate., 3221 believes that the Blessed Virgin Mary told them all on 11/18/09 (after Bishop Lennons Decree): In the case of this particular apparition, no legitimate investigation was ever done. The messages quoted by Jesus, Mary, and St. Joan of Arc seem to have really taken hold of this person (and so many others). And soon the lengthy messages that Sweeney dictated into a tape recorder began denouncing the Catholic Church; others commented on political details of the day. Any profit from the sale of the Rosary of the unborn is to fund a shelter for unwed mothers. "No. Ive not heard anything about this. All rights reserved. That I do not accept your derision of HLM? Then you won't be in a position to judge." Ellen J. And again, if you are questioning such an orthodox, fundamental concept it only goes to prove that you are very mixed up. The primary sticking point of those who opposedeem falseHoly Love Ministries is, Mary would never lead the faithful to disobey legitimate ecclesiastical authoritynamely bishop Lennon, Bishop of the Cleveland Diocese. Indeed, it is not about what looks good on the surface. Nonetheless, Bishop Lennon and his expert have serious concerns about Holy Love Ministries for Catholics. I fear that many, enthralled by what they believe to be a miraculous site, will disregard the Church. May they rest in peace. Elena Maria Vidal, The Poetic Language of the Mass | feat. Disobedience to Church authority is one of the premier hallmarks of a false vision or apparition (there are others such as self-promotion, pride and profitting). The Bishop has spoken after an investigation of Holy Love, as requested by Pope Benedict XVI. We become obedient to the Church and Her officials only when we become obedient to the constant teachings of the Church, as taught by the Magisterium through the ages. You make some good points. He evidently does not realize that learning the full and true Faith as it is given to us by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church takes priority over obedience to him. So, since you cannot best me in this argument, your answer now is to encourage all to ignore me. This is the personal judgement of one bishop,and so he warns (read gently urges. The devil has the ability to deceivewith cleverly-disguised religious apparitions, so the Catholic Church carefully evaluates such sites for discrepancies that conflict withScripture and Tradition. For this reason, in preparation for writing to you, I did some research on the Catholic understanding of teh virtue of obedience. Good Lord, you need to fall on your knees in front of the Blessed Sacrament in a church or chapel far away from that place and pray for His grace to extricate you from the snares of the devil. The words were cleverly chosen. To Tom D: I too went to Conyers, GA as well as Kettle River and stopped by Necadah, WI once when I noticed a large billboard advertising a Marion Shrine. ps. Since he does not forbid it, people can therefore go and it also means HLM is not condemned.. Often genuine sites that are later approved by the Church are frowned upon by the bishop under which they serve. You are fixated on your belief that those who do not heed Bishop Lennons advisement (another synonym for admonishment) are therefore disobedient. These would be the criteria of a true discernment and judgment.. O Holy Night by Josh Groban: It is not a command to obedience. Furthermore, my point was that YOU ARE INCORRECT about the Bayside events. Veo que tienes un link para EWTN en su sitio primeraluz.org. This whole discussion was initiated by those who are concerned with the error of those following HLM. Would you add to your intentions, please, that 3221 refrain from using such vulgar language as 3221 used above Let me tell you something else, Kevin, while you are d_______ with proper canonical procedure? Cover me with the Precious Blood of Your Divine Son. I am wondering why HLM bothers you so much. 6/29/93 from Our Lady: Forgive everything and you will not be in error. This is contrary to our faith. In an article on Apparitions/Private Revelations the EWTN.com website Colin B. Donovan, STL explained that the first responsibility of the faithful is to remain established in the faith, in the sacraments and in communion with the Pope and bishops. (6)What I most wish to convey to you is how much Jesus depends on souls who have sincerely consecrated themselves to the Cross. Yes. We have two generations of ill-formed Catholicsdue to bishops who have failed Christ badlywho do not know the most fundamental teachings of their Faith,nor do they understand that the virtue of obedience is an obedience to defending the Faith, not the false obedience of unthinking compliance with bishops, especially when those bishops do not have the moral integrity which underpins any true discernment. 1. How could all these good fruits not be from God? The message here is so simple love God and neighbor as yourself.i thank God he gives us all our free will and pray from the bottom of my heart for wisdom and heavenly discernment for all. I am proving, however, that we shouldnever say never. His friend and business partner, whose farm property held a large cross and the gathering, reported that Steve and visionaries throughout the world had been called by the Blessed Mother to go to Medjugorje. I too have had wonderful experiences at Holy Love that have brought me so much closer to God, my church and my faith. This is not to understand it at all. The Church has spoken on Holy Love Ministries. Who gave you this talking point? You are in trouble if you think that obedience to heresy is of God. Patti and her husband, Mark, live in North Dakota, where they raised their 10 children. OK, so now it is heresy to declare the Holy Love apparitions to be not supernatural??? If we CHOOSE (use our free will) to REJECT Gods grace, it cannot flow into our souls. ), I think one should be hesitant in going there. 39 But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.. I am not accusing Bishop Lennon of anything. You admitted you do not know where Lennon stands on those issues and yet you insinuate he is a corrupt bishop and thus HLM has the right to get out of his jurisdiction. She asked little Jacinta at Fatima, Do you want to HELP ME save sinners? St.Paul tells us, I make up in my body what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ. We are called through our sufferings UNITED TO JESUS- to help Him redeem the world. You pointed out in your article, Patti, that Holy Love Ministries seems Catholic because the site has statues, rosaries, and Catholic prayers. The decree uses the word warning becasue that it what it isa warning not a formal command to obey. No, Mary it is NOT the last word. No way. Very informative. Most of the messages are even similar to Medjugorje. From EWTN document PRIVATE REVELATIONS AND DISCERNMENT OF SPIRITS: The objection will be raised: The Church was so slow in approving Fatima, and so people lost so many graces while waiting. This is so sad that people run after these private revelations that bring some notoriety to a person in need, while the Fatima message is no longer preached. I was taken aback by the rubbish that was in some of these messages. I do not know him. Satans work! Jesus said to test the spirits, but not all are bad. Christ has done that for us. Good points all. What I discovered about the virtue of obedience from both of these eminently reliable sources surprised even me, although my instincts led me in this direction. This is the law of non-contradiction. My life is stressful enough without stirring up such pots, I reasoned. William G. Most). If Pope Benedict XVI came out tomorrow and said no Catholics are to go to Holy Love because he has deemed that it is not of supernatural origin, would you obey or would you continue to go? Holy Love Ministries has maintained a period of silence, and now we feel it is time to defend the truth. Hildebrand says,If there are only a few persons who belileve the true Faith, they are the Church. (Catholic Apologetics). How sad that, even in the face of the most basic logic, many refuse to understand how dangerous it is to follow the serpentine path of these untruths. Read works written by St. Thomas Aquinas. St. Ignatius is referring to the Magisterium, which is the definitive authority of the Catholic Church. Oh my. The continue to remain silent while the most horrific distortions of our treasured Faith are promulgated. If you would actually read the messages your opinions would be more informed. The devil can quote Scripture and encourage people to pray as it suits his larger purpose. Look at the fruits of the bishops catechesis for the last 40 years. We have two generations of unformed and misinformed Catholics due to the neglect, defiance, and disbelief of bishops in this country. Additionally, the bad people in the Church claim is also false, unless Sweeney-Kyle (et al) can prove that somehow the documents (and the doctrine behind them) that govern these matters were somehow written by these bad people to suppress HLM. Navigating the Interior Life: Spiritual Direction and the Journey to God, article on Apparitions/Private Revelations, Holy Hacks: Everyday Ways to Live Your Faith & Get to Heaven, Big Hearted: Inspiring Stories from Everyday Families, http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2011/12/sister-magdalena-of-cross-nun-who-made.html, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12621, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/06/10/spiritual-direction-book-club-how-do-i-join-it%29, http://rcspiritualdirection.com/blog/2012/12/04/csd-book-club-announcing-our-next-book-3/comment-page-1#comment-12630, http://www.ewtn.com/Library/NEWAGE/MUGABAY.TXT, http://www.mysticsofthechurch.com/2009/11/obedience-to-catholic-church-judging.html, http://www.thewarningsecondcoming.com/home/, http://www.vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__PU.HTM, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Zh-yR0pbmU, Irish Prayers for Strong Families and Spiritual Protection, 20 Ways to a Holy Christmas Through Advent, St. Michael, St. Gabriel, St. Raphael, Archangels, Book Review: Habits for Holiness by Fr. Stop judging those who do not heed it. July 2019: You will be persecuted because of your faith. Using your logic Joan was wrong for not denying her voices. Gift Shop - Holy Love Christ was a man [human] like us in all things but sin. On Holy Love Ministries. Looking back on that message now, it was supposed to help me in my discernment of my vocation, but the message was general and vague. The Bishop of a diocese is not the last word on any apparition. Catholic Exchange is a project of Sophia Institute Press. (Catholic Apologetics). Just wait and you will see. "Heavenly Father, today, I surrender to You my heart. Patti Maguire Armstrong is a TV talk show host ofLadies of Another Viewand an award-winning author andmagazines and newspaper journalist. Makes it look like it is genuine itself. Lest this get buried below, here is my response to 3221 re the condemnation of the Bayside events. Assuredly, if there were lots, HLM would have posted them. Be careful of what you so cynically dismiss. I really dont advise these places for most folks. In the end, the type of people who go to apparition sites are not necessarily nave or foolish. My story is quite unusual, perhaps. It does not matter how official he tries to make it sound. I am not digging for dirt. Remember, Holy Love is an ecumenical place, not Catholic. There is no call for using vulgarities here. Find me one half truth, just one. You can find that citation from Catherine of Sienna in the first chapter of her Dialogues. The devil can be there, too. You go right along and obey your bishop ;no matter what and see where it leads you. Please do not respond with the same old response about Lennons decree. I just looked up in Aquinas Summa Theologica about obedience to bishops. The point is, Madame, that you have a vested interest in proving me wrong. Sweeney insisted that the Virgin Marys messages demanded that she be given a new title, one recognized by the Catholic Church, that of Our Lady Protectress of the Faith. The Cleveland Catholic Diocese turned down this request. Apparently, the final authority of the Catholic Church agrees with Lennons position. I suggest you read Aquinas on obedience instead. There are no half truths in what HLM puts out. Her latest books areHoly Hacks: Everyday Ways to Live Your Faith & Get to HeavenandBig Hearted: Inspiring Stories from Everyday Families. Many, really do not know what they are doing. But only time will tell, and we will know the Truth some day, maybe in heaven if we are determined by our life and prayers and faithfulness to the Church to go there. The Devil Cannot Condemn You: How to Kill Accusations with Conviction Now you prove to the contrary and Ill continue discussing with you on this point. I am sure he knew that. When has anyone in our day heard a Priest condemn the sin of fornication from the pulpit? It is clear to me that you are sincerely searching for the truth, and that you in no way harbor contemptuous mockery in your heart toward those who have found spiritual strength and guidance at Holy Love Ministries. But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth (John 16:12-13). Since there appears to be no dispute of this part of Lennons Decree (at least insofar as the arguments have gone in these comments), what is the premise for going to HLM? This man continues to remain obedient and does not publicly discuss his mystical experiences with Christ and the Blessed Mother. Give me one example of circular logic. If the messages are true than all the above messages you have quoted are totally logical. His judgement is NOT the definitive Voice of the Church. And thats just the very recent stuff. Is this not akin to dismissing it all? We are not God. I just read yesterday about HLMs description of the remnant.. This, my friends, is what he gets out of it: There will be a number of people who believed they were healed or their faith brought to life through Holy Love Ministries that, like a rebellious adolescents, will respond, We dont have to listen to the Church.. Am also not responding to a number that shall go nameless! Jesus Is Condemned To Death. Jesus told us that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church and he promised to send the Paraclete to keep the Church free from error. Do not take what St. Ignatius says out of context. There is the Truth, and everything else is a lie. They do not have confessions or Mass on the property, as requested by the Bishop. One is either Catholic or not. No, it does not. The harping criticism is that to be Catholic one must be obedient to ones bishop no matter what. And may their souls and the souls of all the faithful departed, through the mercy of God, rest in peace. The math simply doesnt add up! oh yea, shes spent thousands of dollars flying up there and one of her friends said:why doesnt God pick me to be the visionary? what is the fruit of this ministry? Hope that helps. Finally, by the end of 2014 the world will know the truth of a great many things including the authenticity of the Holy Love, as well as other apparitions that are currently misjudged. (11/27/12-ST. JOAN OF ARC) As a suggestion for you to decide for yourselves on? It was a no show for the Blessed Mother. Come, Lord Jesus! If the bishop were to state that no credibility can be given to HLM messages, he would, in effect, be disavowing the teachings of the Catholic Faith, as the messages of HLM ARE those deep and ancient truths of Catholicism. One does not need to be under the local ordinary to teach the Faith. You will find the Church where the true Faith is. After reading through the explanations of why certain messages must be regarded as false, it helps readers to be more discerning. Or, is this something that happened in the past? I pray for friends of mine that also are addicted to the place and see nothing odd, no internal warnings at all, let alone disobeying the Bishop. You cannot and you ignore that question too. Bishop Lennon certainly is not infallible given the Vaticans reversal of his improper practice of closing certain parishes. Thomas T. emailed me last summer and we had a back and forth debate on the authenticity of the apparitions. He has 5 kids who he cannot interact with unless it is about Holy Love and what he considers the Truth. And obviously, I am no way biased against mystics and visionariesin fact the entire Mystics of the Church website is in support of them. Period. Call it the Holy Spirit or my Guardian Angel, but I dont think this is a true Catholic organization. Stop the scoffing and mocking. If I believed Bishop Lennon is a corrupt bishop I would have said so. Go and pray there, it is not a sin. Its interesting to read some of the defenders and their circular logic. Let me ask you a question: What will you do and to whomor should I say to Whom will you be obedient when your bishop tells you that the Holy Eucharist is only a symbol and not really the Body and Blood of Jesus? Glory be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit @LizEst I could not go on the link to join the book club it doesnt work. Has he checked their theological content? A prophecy was recently sent to Catholic philosopher, Daniel O'Connor, from Father Michel Rodrigue. Never was a true visionary told he or she did not have to obey Catholic authority. I noticed that the conversation is stuck on the Bishops wording, etc. She has asked us to pray for sinners repeatedly. Moreover, the people at the site have not taken a vow of obedience to the Bishop, thus they are obliged to follow their conscience. It makes it seems that the so-called messages are authentic. I love your site. If what is taught by an appointed servant of God (bishop, priest, or Pope) is contrary to Catholic teaching, they are not to be obeyed, but even publicly rebuked. I am a clear writermuch more so than many on this blog who have taken it upon themselves to malign something they give clear evidence of being afraid of and need to bash. Then, when Gods authority on earth the Church speaks against the fraud, a number of otherwise good Catholics get caught in the trap. There have been many examples of dishonesty and foolishness in the messages. Whew! do something new. It can lead to a crisis in faith instead of the reverse. If the local bishop, after investigating, finds nothing supernatural, he will issue a decree of constat de non supernaturalitate(the supernatural is not established) to help warn and protect the faithful. concrete evidence of why he has made this decision makes me very skeptical of his decision. 212 1. Or, disappointment leads them to reject Church authority thinking that they are right and the Church is wrong. This is the error of relativism. The bishop has said it is not from God. Using St. Joan of Arc as an example would be an arguing point if we were discussing Maureen Sweeney-Kyle, the supposed visionary, but were not talking about her. Know your faith and follow yiur heart. Or maybe St.Thomas Aquinas? I fear that many, enthralled by what they believe to be a miraculous site, will disregard the Church. Sometimes you just might be surprised on what your heart will tell you and what may or may not be false. Please understand that I speak to you as one martyred for the Truth of private revelation despite evidence to the contrary. Holy Love Ministries has succeeded in thoroughly confusing you/brainwashing you into endless criticisms of the Church, Her bishops, Her priests, and placing the messages, the apparitions and visions of Our Lady, Jesus, God the Father, the Saints over and above the One True Church. Except that God didnt stop my father from sacrificing me. Messages - Holy Love Excellent, Elizabeth. But, unfortunately many who are seeking for something in life to fill a void they may have, want to be able to fill this void by going to such places as the above. We have NOT fulfilled Our Ladys requests to honor her on the Five First Saturdays. If Rome asked this bishop to send a report and based upon his observations, this is not a true apparition site, best to obey. In that consecration to God, we can accept the Cross, help bear the cross, follow the way of the Cross. 3221, if you do not see this, there is no purpose in further communicating with me on this matter. Did it automatically disappear? I admire your fortitude! Father Michel Rodrigue | Mary Refuge Of Souls One more thingbuyer beware! Many Catholics wishing to promote alleged or unapproved private revelations use a maxim to justify their position. I have asked you to give me examples of heresy in HLM but you ignore that and harp on obedience to the bishop. When God told Adam and Eve not to eat the apple, dont eat the apple, even if just an apple. Imitate this resignation by accepting trials.". I am proving, however, that we should never say never . Its his job. Holy Love messages do not even have the facts about human anatomy correct. he knows the blood of the martyrs is the seed of the church so its easier for man not to go to church..or where the true spirit of god is calling us back to true worship. Aquinas: On the contrary, (Hebrews 13:17) obey your prelates and be subject to them. (Question 104 Obedience, Article 1). What are the names of these bishops? People have been going to thisplace since the early 1990s, drawn by founder Maureen Sweeney-Kyles claim that Jesus and the Blessed Virgin Mary and a host of saints are appearing to her with messages. philosophy that goes something like this, That which is obvious admits no debate. My earliest memory is being on the site and looking at pictures of the sky taken on the property, trying to discover what clouds or images that could be miraculous. Either we accept the authority of the Church, or we reject it. As regarding any priests or Bishops who have been going to the site, do you suppose that Bishop Lennons words to them are vague and ambiguous also.forbid members of the clergy of any ecclesiastical jurisdiction to celebrate the sacraments on the site of Holy Love Ministries? Therefore, this official proclamation by the Bishop will be of little regard to Sweeny-Kyle, or her husband Don Kyle, the director of Holy Love Ministries. I was made to feel guilty, wrong and afraid for questioning him or HLM. The messages against what the Church believes and teaches started from the very beginning of these false messages (Ive listed just a few elsewhere in this blog, together with the dates of the false messages). "Heavenly Father, today, I surrender to You my heart. Nothing to say about all the points I made about your so-called heretical excerpts from HLM? This is a fundamental teaching of the Catholic Church. God bless you Elizabeth. look at luther and especially king henry and st thomas moore. As with David in Psalm 32, God convicts us so that we can experience forgiveness ( Psalm 32:3-5 ). Consider the options the devil has available to trap faithful Catholics? It can get the faithful off track. I suffer for what comes to you. Recently some friends went on a pilgrimage from North Dakota to Ohio to visit the Holy Love Ministries site where messages and apparitions to a housewife have been reported to be occurring for twenty years. One local bishop is not the definitive word on an apparition site, nor does it denote the definitive decision of the Catholic Church hierarchy. If we do not take the word of our bishop, we are in trouble. He is a very sick man. The people of the Cleveland Diocese fought Bishop Lennon fiercely in order to retrieve parishes sold by him and monies taken by him. Stop judging it and mocking it with your prideful comments. Despite all the usual Catholic trappings chapel, statues, rosaries and religious bookstore, not to mention the throngs from across the country and globe the purported visions by Maureen Sweeney-Kyle have been condemned. Then, all their gains are lost. As to the annulment, it is none of our business whether or not she got a declaration of nullity, a declaration of invalidity or whatever. Holy Love is the Two Great Commandments of Love - to love God above all else and to love neighbor as self. Blind obedience is for slaves not for thinking people. You assume you are free to mock that which many others treasure without dealing with the hurt and indignation you engender. Our Lady with the bowl in her hand and using the baking of a cake to put forth her message. Mary Kochan has my contact information. In this case, he has now gotten some devout Catholics to separate themselves by the Church by one degree that of disobedience. This IS the teaching of the Catholic Church. The Bishop of Cleveland says otherwise by the fact of his document and he claims to have the backing of the Holy See. Jesus told us that the gates of hell would not prevail against his Church and he promised to send the Paraclete to keep the Church free from error. The simple fact is that it is not true that an apparition needs to have approval by a bishop to be believed as authentic by the faithful. It takes awhile to digest such a fraud. My argument has been the most consistent of anyone in this discussion. Who is to be obedient in this case? Catechesis in the American Church are heretical and distorted. Who has the words of eternal life? And no, I am not mocking this, that stuff about Jesus telling people to redeem themselves in his eyes is actually in one of the messages of MDM. Just wait an you will see, No one is denying their right to follow their conscience. Thanks, Elizabeth! the use of the word Cross here is meant to convey that one must consecrateset ones self apart for- entering into the sufferings of ones life with generous acceptance of Gods Will. Again, LOOK UP AQUINAS TEACHING ON WHEN TO DISOBEY A BISHOP. Give me some more points. Read all about it in The Rite The Making of a Modern Exorcist by Matt Baglio. The above is more about emotions and passions run amock than the practicing of Divine/Catholic Faith (to say nothing of Reason). He states that Catholics can never compromise Faith under the pretext of obedience. We are free to heed it or not heed it, as it is not a formal canonical command to obedience. Lennon then cites the desire of the Holy See for Lennon to act definitively on this matter. The words were cleverly chosen. I enjoy visiting holylove and believe that it is for all faiths just as Mary has appeared in Cairo. against abortion.". Wishing you and yours a Blessed and Merry Christmas and a Blessed and Happy New Year! Here is a clear example of your biased opinion interpreting what HLM is saying.
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