I understand how overwhelming addiction is and how impossible it can feel to overcome. I was 26 years old, and I am the first born-again person in my family. I find myself regularly reminding pastors that before God made them pastors, He made them people. Also, I recommend that we be careful about accepting any ministrys recorded decisions for Christ. The popular preacher. Its right there. We are easily deceived and surrounded by a godless culture. Lance Witt, who served twenty years as a senior pastor and six years as an executive/teaching pastor at Saddleback Church, shares insights on how pastors can prevent burnout and not make some of the same mistakes he feels he made. As a side note: saying bad, bad hermeneutics is not sarcastic or disturbing. Give people a simple step. There were some churches that had hired or elected females as their senior pastor. Thank you so much Julie for your piece on Rick Warren. How to restore broken marriages after an affair, part 1, 3 ways pastors can help women and families experiencing postpartum depression, Pastoral care and refuge for rape victims, How your pastoral limitations can bless your churches. Warren uses a lot of Bible verses in The Purpose Driven Life, but he consistently engages in eisegesis. Im not sure if you understand what straining gnats and swallowing camels means. It was a very exciting time and an insanely crazy time. Rick Warren certainly seems to be slipping past a bunch of people. Any addictions program will have a great deal of self-reflection and self-awareness. Saddleback Church backs Rick Warren successor despite allegations Its also not clear on the gospel. She must know that God sent His Son, Jesus, to fulfill the law living a sinless life and that Jesus willingly took the punishment for our sin on the cross as the final sacrifice needed. Fourth, you said people have many approaches to teaching Gods Word. Whos right ,and Who is wrong! And I am so happy that you found a church that digs into the meat of the Word. All we must do is repent and believe. I sincerely hope you see this as a fair question. As I said, earlier, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has given this church carte blanche to do whatever suits Warren. Church membership is suggested but not insisted upon. 1.) The notion that women should be silent in church, found in 1 Timothy 2:12 and 1 Corinthians 14:3, refers specifically to instances of the church and marriage. The Southern Baptists have never had any significant number of churches that have been pastored by women. and Catholicism, Priests, and Celibacy. Hi, Debbie. Pastor Warren is a very public figure with a huge influence, and he falls under the mark and avoid category (Romans 16:17-18). We fail, and the gospel is the good news that Jesus has offered us as the way to be reconciled to God. (Im not kidding. Im actually a little excited about Saddleback ordaining women because this gives the SBC no choice but to address female preaching. There is so many different Churches(Buildings ,with preaching going on).What about Catholic Nuns? You are 100% correct! To his own master he stands or falls. His congregant, John Baker, created it with Warrens support. And he does this by making the gospel and his church easier for the world to tolerate, but its so watered down it is barely recognizable. If a whole post on the subject is wrong, then I wonder how much is acceptable to you. If youre not convinced of the importance of marking and avoiding false teachers, then I suggest you read my post on why we should call them out. Pastor Rick Warren announces successor to lead Saddleback Church into My name is Julie. I certainly hope that you take your own advice, as well. He makes people who prefer authoritarian evangelical structures bristle. We need to call out these misleading ministries and lead people to truth before they hear, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (Matthew 7:23). You sound judgmental, and judge not lest ye be judged. 2.) And when a person knows doctrine, then that person can identify when someone is teaching something inconsistent with Gods Word. This, obviously, makes it secular for all intents and purposes. I think thats called hypocrisyIf you have questions regarding calling out false teachers, then I suggest you read this post: https://thesetapartwalk.com/why-i-wont-apologize-for-calling-out-false-teachers/. We may not only be losing Saddleback Church and Rick Warren. All of those things together are a recipe for burnout for a lot of leaders and pastors. I actually write about my struggles with sin and how God is working in my life on those things. The Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, conceived as an organization of individual churches with a set of shared beliefs that pool some of their resources, but which are ultimately autonomous. Its quite instructive. Christians cant even peacefully agree on a Bible translation, but millions will read and love this book? PS.. Now, some Southern Baptists fear an ultraconservative ideological wing of the organization is imposing its own beliefs and values on other churches. . Leave the lost wicked dying and addicted to those who give a damn. Pastor Rick Warren speaks during an outdoor Easter service at Saddleback Church, which just returned to in-person worship, on Thursday evening, April 1, 2021. But Sabbath is about stopping, and resting, and delighting, and putting things in your life that fill you up. After leaving Saddleback, Lance started a ministry called Replenish to help pastors care for themselves as they do the work of ministry. No one is perfect. 4 Reasons You Need a Break by Lane Sebring There is nothing I have said that has been against the Lord. CRs foundational principles are based on the a sermon on the Mount. The story of Jesus is given (yay! You dont know hopeless until youve been that hopeless. I attended Saddleback for many years but so happy to now be in a church that teaches the Bible in depth, verse by verse. Its driven by power, male supremacy; and it stinks in the nostrils of God, he wrote. That is how our polity is intended to work. Im Julie. We should all avoid proof texting. He is a legitimate celebrity. Celebrate Recovery shares how to be born again, but the programs focus is the program. I think the biggest question pastors need to ask is, Why am I so driven? Less than a month after the Los Angeles-based megachurch turned away from biblical complementarianism, senior pastor Rick Warren announced that he is resigning from his position after over 40 years. I love your positivity and focus on that. I think you are utterly and completely wrong about both Rick Warren and Saddleback Church. Just WOW!!! His own website says he started Saddleback as a church for people who didnt like church. My post is warning against a teacher who is so seeker-sensitive that he started a church to appease people who werent into church. Saddleback Church pastor Rick Warren signals retirement with search for So I burned out at Saddleback, and here's what I learned I have read this post over and over again because I want to take any critical comments I receive seriously and to check my tone. Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. (Again, theres more on the My Testimony page.). Your opinion couldve prevented someone from finding God. So, once again, we see a poorly given gospel message with more focus on Saddlebacks product than anything else. The program also consists of eight principles for recovery from the Beatitudes. You are welcome to disagree and hold to whatever beliefs you hold on the subject, and I respect your opinion. Saddleback Church Says Goodbye to Its Worship Leader of 24 Years Have you spoken to the SBC or Pastor Rick about your concerns? Saddleback is the exception. Would you know how to minister to them? What does history teach us about Saddleback Church and the SBC? You have a little bit wrong, though. If you believe that women can and/or should be pastors, I ask you to flip your method of interpreting the Word. My issue with Saddleback Church has nothing to do with nonessential issues. Progressive Christianity: https://thesetapartwalk.com/progressive-christianity-not-all-progress-is-good/ Ministry, no matter what size the church, is a team sport. Today, the Southern Baptist Convention is increasingly homogeneous. You bring up some very important thoughts. However, for the five years my husband and I spent as Southern Baptists, it seemed like Pastor Warren got a pass for anything questionable about his church. As part of its release, we decided to turn it into a campaign in our church and around the country. Ministry today might be as complex as its ever been in the history of the world. His critics would have been delighted if he had failed. Apparently, Warren plucked it out of Job without thought of the true meaning of the text. I can assure you that I spent time prayerfully considering the points you made in your comment. My point is that you couldve pivoted your message to offering the opportunity to invite people to the church you attend and discuss why you think its great instead of stating all the wrong things about Saddleback. You write well, and you are obviously passionate about your faith.) Third, you told me that I might have stopped people from finding God. I really didnt handle it well, and its part of that journey that resulted ultimately in me doing Replenish. So I hope Saddleback appeals it. Its not becoming of a lady who is set apart. A few years ago it was Calvinism. I sometimes look back at that season and tell people that it was both the most intoxicating and toxic season of my life. For political, financial, and public relations reasons, it is neither feasible nor advisable for SBC leaders to take action. We are all different and take many approaches on teaching Gods word; thats whats most important. May God bless you and continue to use you. If youre curious about who I am, you should read my testimony. Know Ephesians 4. So, even if I didnt think female ordination was a problem, Saddleback is still in the wrong. (Dont count on the SBC to do anything, though, theyve silently been allowing female preaching for years.). Jesus is their life. Im not going to ignore the wolf in the room for anyones comfort. If you, however, find theres a lack of content you want to read, then I suggest you start a blog and share what you want to see on the internet. LOL. Just because you like something doesnt make it good, accurate, or biblical. You are full of ugliness and pride. I think asking the why question puts pastors on a path to be more emotionally healthy. Heres my least popular thought, though I am not primarily concerned with the an addict getting clean. When we did 40 Days of Purpose, a study guide for The Purpose Driven Life, we had 2,100 small groups. Yet, his frequent use of proof-texting and his ordination of women proves He plays a bit too fast and loose with his Bible interpretations. Among those who worry about an increasingly authoritarian stance by the SBC is Benjamin Cole, 46, a former Southern Baptist pastor in Texas who has been attending Southern Baptist conventions for nearly 30 years. There have always been many different ways of being Baptist. Saddleback Church, Rick Warren, The Purpose Driven Life, and Celebrate Recovery have always been on my something-aint-right-here list. I, myself, had a dangerous drinking habit into my mid-twenties. Second, you did not address any of my criticisms with counterarguments. A full body orgasm at the L.A. Phil? If only you can use your wisdom appropriately. Each person is different and comes at the teaching from their own history, personality, etc. (If youre not, then you can ignore me here.) 2. This article demonizes Rick in a sarcastic and disturbing manner, I mean using words such as bad, bad hermeneutics. We really need to be careful in this area. So, how has the church emphasis failed the gospel? 2. Discover how CareLeader.org can help you provide biblical and compassionate pastoral care for struggling and hurting people in your church. |, Christian Budgeting: There Really Is A Biblical Way, How To Sabotage Your Marriage: Unrealistic Expectations, News And The Willful Ignorance Of Christians - The Set-Apart Walk, Your Church Might Just Be A Social Club - The Set-Apart Walk, Lutheranism Is Biblical, Right? Youre a rare gem in that way. This conversation has been edited for length and clarity. Deborah was the judgea political leaderover Israel in Judges 4. It happened in the wake of Saddlebacks determination as an autonomous local church to ordain female ministers not as senior pastors of the church, but as associate ministers of the church. But I find it likely that Rick Warrens retirement makes it easier for people who have long wanted Saddleback out to pursue it. I went to Saddleback in 2000, and Rick Warren wrote The Purpose Driven Life in 2002. California-based megachurch Saddleback broke from the Southern Baptist Convention's deep-seated views on women in leadership and recently ordained three women pastors. Southern Baptists have always been more concerned about distributing life jackets to people who are drowning than straitjackets, he said. After leaving Saddleback, Lance started a ministry called Replenish to help pastors care for themselves as they do the work of ministry. What Christ is Warren suggesting people accept? Simply put, Im a Bible-believing Christian woman. (Frankly, the more chances I give Rick Warren, the more negative things I find about him as a pastor.) On the other hand, you cant skip fundamentals like the seriousness of sin, Hell, and repentance and still be sharing the whole gospel. Im pondering your post, not pounding it. Saddleback ordained three women on May 6, 2021. My personal rule of thumb is that if the church, book, etc. It also says that an overseer a pastor is to be faithful to his wife. Well, Southern Baptists dont approve of female pastors becausethe Bible. I was on a fast track to a similar fate, but salvation through Jesus led to my sobriety. Rick Warren to retire as lead pastor of Saddleback Church Without looking at the context, these verses seem overbearing. Warrens church not only committed this act, but they publicly celebrated it. Thank you so much for doing what you do. They water down the gospel, downplay sin, and cater to worldly preferences instead of focusing on biblical principles. A man battling chronic anger. Benjamin Cole is a former Southern Baptist pastor in Texas who has been attending Southern Baptist conventions for nearly 30 years. Its also great to see you backing up your thoughts with Scripture. Why is that so bad? Why would they like it? And we need to test everything: hold fast what is good (1 Thessalonians 5:21). I myself did actually enjoy The Purpose Driven life as a new Christian and have enjoyed many of Rick Warrens sermons (on line) but having read through your points, Im re-thinking a lot and will be re-searching his teachings a bit more in depth. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Holy Communion!!!! We might agree on more than you think. What is happening now seems to me to be a great divorce from Baptist history and heritage, said Cole, who tweets his thoughts on the SBC under the handle @baptistblogger. (Romans 14:1,22). The Southern Baptist Church Executive Committee announced it will oust five churches for having female pastors, including one of the largest churches in the convention, California's Saddleback . Thanks for having an open mind and not assuming I am coming at things with bad intentions. I marvel at your self righteous self proclaimed view that you are the only person in all Christianity that has the one true oath. Its not about salvation or the gospel or Jesus, its about admitting they are powerless, and asking God to help. We should not be tossed to and fro by any old doctrine (Ephesians 4:14). 3 Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. We actually changed some of our terminology: Instead of considering yourself the leader of this small group, could you just host a group in your home and facilitate? Just that simple language change made a difference. Looking at your list, though, Id say most of what you listed is unbiblical. COVID had its impact on our Saddleback staff because we were not able to all be together in the offices. Yes, theology is important and doctrine matters. Adam Greenway, who served as the president of the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary from February 2019 to September 2022, was one of many who argued that the decision sets a bad precedent: There seems to be a sentiment in todays SBC that wants to purify the Convention, and sees women pastors as a huge threat to biblical authority and a slippery slope toward liberalism and drift, he wrote on Twitter. Julie, Men and women, according to Scripture, are equal in the sight of the Lord. He is now dedicated to helping leaders live and lead from a healthy soul. And he always helps! On hearing of Saddleback's decision to allow women to become pastors, some Southern Baptist ministers had conflicting opinions. Julie The Bible. The crowd and energy of an event can feed all kinds of off the cuff comments that dont work out well. God is just love. Pastors also have not always been good about leading themselves. You must be new here. I'm so happy to say that my church now has a campus on my hometown of South Bay here in . Rather than Jesus lessons about the kingdom during the Sermon on the Mount, CR is offering Your Best Life Now kinda stuff. No thanks to you. Im going to skip over forgiving ourselves and look right to forgiving God. Im a pastors wife and mother to 5 children. Kudos to you! So, lets take a look at three ways Saddleback is failing the gospel, and ultimately, you. But I learned that as insidious as the external things are, the internal things are more insidious. I pray for him, and others in a similarly unique position of influence regularly, but I believe it is cowardly and unloving to not warn others of bad Bible teaching. A healthy, sound church is such a gift. I thought I would be all alone in my opinion of Warrens book, and I was partially correct. Freeimages.com. Ultimately, thats what we need to doview teachings through the sieve of Gods Word. Second, you also implied that I am tearing down other Christians. On June 2, Saddleback announced Wood as Warren's successor after Warren's more than four decades of service as the church's lead pastor. You are a small petty jealous man. Destructive hard does lead to burnout. God bless! Whether or not individuals who are both employed by SBC agencies or serve as trustees of those entities and agencies seized upon the opportunity of Rick Warrens retirement to seek and pursue the removal of Saddleback from fellowship, I dont know. Tell us about your role at Saddleback Church. At Saddleback, we did Just In Time training, giving people just enough to get started. But churches like Saddleback lure people in with friendliness and self-help styled sermons. There are many verses that teach caution, 1 John 4:1; 2 John 1: 7-11; Romans 16:17; and 1 Timothy 6: 3-5 to name a few. 3. It was a very typical Monday morning on November 2, 2020. Lots of people know the Truth, but there is only one place to find it. A generation ago, a pastor was the only voice in his community. The whole world talks this way to each other & about each other. ( The Desert Sun Video) The top pastor of Southwest Church in Indian Wells was asked to resign because he refused to condemn homosexuality, he explained in his resignation letter. Instead, the couple shepherded the large church through the COVID-19 pandemic and a shutdown than would affect the church for about 14 months. I think you should know the Bible more than just basing it in one scripture. I think you have a pet issue that you see in everything Im not saying women cant teach, share the gospel, or otherwise be used in great ways by God for His kingdom purposes. Youre describing issues common to many mega churches, and you might consider that youll see these people in Heaven one day. Saddleback Church, founded by Pastor Rick Warren and his wife, Kay, in 1980, announced on Facebook that on May 6 it had ordained three women as ministers in a "historic night." On Mother's Day, which fell three days after Saddleback's ordination, the Sunday morning online message was given by Kay Warren. Bob Smietana. Why is Frank McCourt really pushing it? That may sound cynical. Women can use avenues such as serving in church and political appointments to accomplish this charge. People have to be inspired. I believe that without the salvation he granted me at 26 years old, Id be a another victim of alcoholism. Women, however, cannot teach men in a role of authority in the church as seen on 1 Timothy 2:11-12. Saddleback changes the SBC. And Im glad to see that you understand the importance of salvation. I will do everything I can to help that appeal process. This kind of discernment is not self-righteousness. Self-promotion and pastor dont seem to jive. Get Connected Yes, but if somehow you managed to get saved through this clumsy attempt at sharing the gospel, you have no guidance in how to find a church besides Saddleback. So many people out here in South Bay has been praying for years for a Saddleback campus, and through God's will, daring faith vision, and persistency, the prayers have now been answered. I wouldnt expect everyone to like it, of course, but why should I accommodate my writing for your sensibilities? The vote by the convention's Executive Committee culminates growing tension between the nation's largest Protestant denomination . The book makes no mention of sin, the need for a Savior, Jesus life, His death at the cross, or the empty tomb. The standards given in the book are based on Warrens experience. When I got to Saddleback, the pace was insanely faster, and the demands were so much more. I am passionate about encouraging Christian women to grow in their faith, live godly lives, and discern truth from all the lies and noise of the world. I would be less shocked if Southern Baptists had a gluttonous, drunken, mardi-gras-style orgy at the 2023 convention in New Orleans than that there would be any effort to affirm women as pastors in Southern Baptist churches. 15 reviews of Saddleback Church "Such a great campus and wonderful community to build relationships with one another. Rather, filter your worldview and beliefs through the truth of His Word. Catholics believe in Transubstantiation, Do You have Communion? I really appreciate your thought on this issue. This is not the first time Kay Warren has taken the pulpit, however. Most pastors I know take a day off, and they catch up on all the stuff they couldnt get done during the week because they were doing ministry. Everything you wrote is factual, it is an assessment based on Gods Word, not the relativistic moods of society. For one, you called me a man. Julie I have read your post and am in 100 percent agreement with your assessment. Put some of your training online, or give volunteers a handout. Saddleback Church lead pastor Rick Warren and his congregation said goodbye to their worship music leader for the last 24 years during church services this past weekend at the megachurch's main campus in Lake Forest, Calif. With its main campus in Lake Forest, Saddleback Church has grown to 14 locations in Southern California, with an average weekly attendance of 30,000, and more than 7,000 small groups meeting in .
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